Interview with Kathleen Crowley

by kSea Flux

Note: As is sometimes the case, hellos' were said, an easy conversation started, and before I knew it the interview is essentially happening. Man, I need to work on that... Don't worry, you didn't miss much. ~ kSea

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Kathleen Crowley: I am liking the direction that style seems to be going as far as the circus-y tribal-y steampunk-y thing.

KC: Yeah, there is. I don't usually like what I see on the American runway every year for fashion week. I get pretty disillusioned and I can't really look at it. [laughs] I hate to say that but I just feel like most American fashion is just boring as hell.

KC: It is. I don't even know where to begin with that one. It seems like we're so afraid as a society to experiment anymore.

kSea: And be individuals.

KC: Yes. We have become the borg. [laughs]

KC: Yeah, so I just have always fought against that even though I do like my basics – as I get older, especially.

kSea: The comfort clothes.

KC: Yeah, or if you have to go to a meeting somewhere you want to look

a little better, I guess, but I really am pretty excited that people are buying my clothes. I'm seeing them everywhere now – not like mainstream, but I make these ruffly pants, these fluffy rufflies, and the dancers have been wearing them, the tribal dancers. They're crossing over in to steampunk and I'm really excited about that.

kSea: There seems to be a lot better fashion sense being created. I think they're working together, one not the result of the other. There's a lot more creativity going on in the world and people wanting to just get out of the fold.

KC: I think the world is getting smaller, of course, because of the internet. It's hard to keep things underground. There used to be underground fashion. Maybe I'm dating myself [laughs] but now everything is so much more accessible, so when people step outside and wear something, you'll see it in the magazines a season or two later. It's pretty interesting. Now I'm seeing ruffles in all the magazines, sheer fabrics and all these fun things. Arm warmers. I'm seeing arm warmers now, where that's been something that's been more of a little trendy thing, I think. Less mainstream. Now I'm seeing it on the French models, so it's pretty fascinating how things get taken from the streets. [laughs]

kSea: That's what they do. I had a girlfriend a few years ago whose cousin worked for Armani as the head designer of the men’s line. Basically what he did was traveled the world buying things and looking at fashion. They essentially copied it with a little bit more of their flair.

KC: Yeah, I remember the early 90's when all the grunge things were coming out. I had a couple of friends who were friends of Mark Jacobs. He's a designer. I think he was the founding father of the grunge look, if I'm not mistaken. They went around and just looked at what people were wearing on the street – the flannels and the plaid shirts – then it went

from there. So it'll be back. The 80's are going strong right now. [kSea laughs] They'll do the 90's again real soon.

kSea: What inspired you to start designing your own clothes?

KC: When I was little, I used to like making paper dolls. This is really cliché, but I liked all the fairy tales and that kind of thing. I would always be drawing little fairy princesses with their big skirts – Cinderella. Later on as I started studying history, I realized that these were taken from the 18th century, 17th century and earlier on down the road. The more I looked at what people used to wear, the more influenced I became in what I wanted to create now. I really, really borrow heavily from historical things. Plus, I was really tall really fast at a young age and I couldn't find clothes, so I had to make them. That's how that started.

kSea: That's fantastic. It turns into a career.

KC: Yes, I know. It was pretty crazy. [laughs]

kSea: Your influence really shows up in the creations I saw on your website. Just beautiful.

KC: Oh, cool. It's hard for me to see what other people are seeing. I look at something and think, “Nyeh, I don't know. That could have been so much better,” but thank you. [both laugh]

kSea: I love the way fashion is really going with so many incredible people these days, with very individual ideas.

KC: Yeah. I don't collaborate with anyone, really, but there are a few designers out there that have been going along the same lines I have been. They have been making clothing for the tribal belly dancers, circus people, burlesque and things like that. The few times we've seen onstage that a dancer will taken something of mine and something from someone else's and other things from someone else's, and create a whole look. I love that. I think that's great.

kSea: You've designed things for Fat Chance Belly Dance, and other various other troupes as well.

KC: Yeah. I've made things for Rachel Brice, Sharon Kihara, Samantha Hasthorpe…

kSea: I don’t know jack about the Belly Dance world, but even I have heard those names…

KC: Oh, yes! The biggest names! [laughs] It's pretty exciting, but to me it's this small little world still. It's not the whole world, but I guess it's becoming more and more prominent, which I'm so excited about.

kSea: What I love is that there's an amazing sense of elegance in the style, and so many different ways to create things

coming back into the world.

KC: That's what I would like to see more of, some elegance coming back. I can be the

queen of tacky, don't get me wrong [laughs] but I would just really love to see some elegance and some quality clothing coming back. Everyone is so homogenized right now, for the most part, and I'm sick of it. I am sick to death of it! [laughs]

kSea: You're doing your part to make it change.

KC: I'm doing my best. I sit here in my studio. Half the time I'm by myself, and I'm just doing my little thing. I don't know. If it helps at all, I'm happy. [laughs] Sometimes I end up making wedding dresses. I've done a lot of bridal. Often that's where women get their fantasy clothing fix, whereas they might not feel comfortable wearing a long sweeping gown out in public. I try to make everything last. I want it to last. I don't want it to fall apart after 3 washings. I want it to last forever, if it can. If I make someone a wedding dress, I want it to be the most special thing they've ever worn in their whole life.

kSea: So they can give it to their daughter or son.

KC: Yeah, yeah! Whether it happens or not, you know. That's what I like to do. I like to put that energy into it. I do a lot of hand stitching. I make it fit. They come in for fittings. Even if it's just something that someone mail orders, I really want it to fit. You can't please everyone all the time, but if it takes me longer to do it that way and I can't put out as much work as maybe others can – well, that's the way it's going to have to be. That's just the way it's going to be. I don't know. I do need five more hands, though.

kSea: Who would you count as your influences in your creations?

KC: I would say that my influences as far as designers are – Vivian Westwood is queen designer of the world. Jean Paul Gaultier . Oh, God, there are so many. I just like to pour through my fashion, my history books, my historical fashion books. I'm surrounded by creative people. The people that I rent my shop from – one's a fabulous decorative muralist, the other is this amazing composer. All my friends are very creative. I'm surrounded by artists and dancers who travel the world. I feel like I'm the luckiest person in the world. Not that many people in the world get to be surrounded by all that beauty. That's what influences me. The people that I have come help me very week – We bounce ideas off each other. I've actually known them for a long time. They're both dancers, and they're just fabulous people. I am fortunate to have extremely intelligent, creative people around me. That must reflect in some things that I do. I get to costume them. My friend Irling, I make him all these amazing coats and things. He wears them out, he just dresses up. It's great. TV influences me, films influence me.

kSea: What kind of films?

KC: Oh, I love the period films. I love Jane Eyre, Sense and Sensibility. I was watching Master and Commander with – I don't know. I'm going blank right now.

kSea: I noticed that you also take old vintage pieces and repair those, make them wearable again…

KC: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I really love doing that. I like making things wearable and I like saving things. My friend Samantha just brought over, from her mother in law in England who has this collection of Victorian clothing – [shows kSea] This might not look like much but it's well over 100 years old.

kSea: Describe it to our reading audience, if you would be so kind…

KC: This is a Victorian bodice. It is a black velvet bodice with purple silk satin trim and lining. It is fully lined – Well, they didn't line things they flat-lined things. What that means is that they put fabric over fabric and fused it, sewed it together as one piece. They cut two pieces, like a side front, out and sew them together in one piece to make it stronger. Then they bone the hell out of it with all this old boning. It's in pristine condition. It's been altered a bit. Somebody put some tacky trim on it, but I guess this was the worst piece of the collection, so they let her bring it over to show me. She showed me pictures of things they had. These ball gowns and bustle gowns and bodices with all these amazing sparkly bits that you just don't see. You only see them in museums, so that excited me... Wait. Where were we going with this?

kSea: We were talking about you repairing and restoring period pieces, things that have survived ages…

KC: Yeah, I love doing that. Actually, the way I learned how to alter clothing and restore them was doing alterations a long time ago for people. They would just bring things to me, and I would take them apart and put them together again. Then as I got better and better at it, people would bring me their grandmother's wedding dress – old, old things. I just worked on an old wool felt skirt of someone's. She brought it to me. It was from the 50s, really good condition. I took the zipper out and opened the back, and I grommeted the back of it so that it could lace up. I made a panel in the back so her skin wouldn't show, and I couldn't find the right kind of felt. I finally found some for $99/yard, and I just needed a little tiny bit. I searched and I searched and I found something that would work. A few years ago that wouldn't have even been a problem. I would have just gone out and found it. This time it was gone. This was at a discount place. It's not cheap to make clothes. We all go to Target or Ross or wherever. I do it, too. It's just the way things are now. I just want people to know that if you want something – good something, made from scratch to fit you – it's just going to cost more. You have to save it up for it, maybe, and that's okay.

kSea: That thing that you create for them is going to last forever, with your best intentions, and be created exactly for them.

KC: I do try to educate people on quantity versus quality. A lot of people do get it, they get that it costs more and that

maybe they have to save up for it, or go without another thing for a while. A lot of people to do appreciate it. There are the people that don't get what's going on in the fashion industry. Almost everything is made overseas now, so an independent designer is working on a much smaller scale. You can't afford to ship overseas and have your things made. It just costs more. It costs a lot of money to live here in this town, and I'm just skating by. If I lived in Idaho, I'd probably own a house or something [laughs] but I want to live here.

kSea: I'd imagine there's a lot more market for your creations here, as well.

KC: Actually, two thirds of my business is overseas. I'm mostly making these fluffy ruffly pants, the dance pants, and then I make these pantaloons that have ruffles, too. Mostly that. Now I make garter shorts for the dancers. Mostly the ruffly things – leg ruffles, skirts. Things to dance in and prance around in. For the local people, I do the more high end costuming.

kSea: Let's talk about your future, Kathleen Crowley's future. Where do you intend to go? What are you working on? What are your goals?

KC: Right now, actually, I'm looking for a live/work space. This was supposed to be temporary. They made it so easy for me to stay here that I just did, but I'd like to get everything under one roof again. I'm finding that hard to find here in town, of course, at a reasonable rate. [laughs] I might have to go across the bay. It's not the end of the world if I do, but I grew up there. I kind of don't want to. I feel like I'm going back home or something. We'll see. In 3 years, I would like to see myself traveling around Europe, taking my stuff to shows and meeting people who want to wear it. Making money, of course. Hiring people to help me. I suppose I should be working on more public exposure. I'm a little bit of a recluse. I'm kind of shy so I don't like to get out too much like I used to. I like being here and working. I just really like making things. It's all I do! [laughs] I think if you can do what you want to do and support yourself somehow, and be creative with it – I think that's the best thing that you can possibly do – aside from helping mankind. [both laugh]

I have struggled, actually, for years with just trying to be creative and earn a living. Right now, I wouldn't say I was doing great, but this is my only job, so I'm feeling pretty darn lucky. The support has been phenomenal. I don't want to go back to having a "real" job. This is my real job. I just want to help contribute to bringing a little bit of inspiration or something to the world, or appreciating the things that people before us tried to inspire others with.

You have to look backwards sometimes in order to look forwards, I think. I think that's what people forget to do. They get stuck in the here and now, or they're just too busy running toward the future. You can get stuck in any place. I just find that the world's pretty difficult to be in right now sometimes, and the more interesting things that we can have around us – the world just needs more fun, beautiful, inspiring things.

kSea: I don't know if I would agree that the world is difficult to be in. I think people have shut themselves off from all the amazing things. We just need to open our eyes.

KC: Well that's the difficult thing. There's so much fear that's been instilled in everyone. I don't think half the things that they're saying are so terrible are actually happening, like this crisis we're going through as far as the depression we're heading towards. I think it's kind of bad, but it's also what we've been told, so we're believing it. I refuse to believe it's that bad.

kSea: Kathleen, we are not getting into politics. I'm sorry.

KC: Okay, okay. This is about style. [laughs] It does affect every walk of life. It affects everything. If you're afraid to step outside wearing anything but Gap clothing, or the cheap things that you're told you have to have in multitude, there's something wrong there. People used to have to make their own clothes. They didn't have Ross and Target, and there's nothing wrong with those places, but…

kSea: I could be dead wrong, but even when they were making their own clothes there was still a fashion style that they pretty much had to follow, so I think we're in an amazing time right now. Pretty much anything goes and we have the opportunity to change the world around us. There’s a certain individuality that has finally come to be appreciated.

KC: I like that attitude. See, I'm in my little place here, and forget. [laughs]

kSea: I think in many ways we're in just an amazingly fortunate time. There's a lot more going for us. We can not be afraid of dressing the way we want to, especially in San Francisco and other cities, being not shunned, but appreciated for it – not being afraid to stand out.

KC: It used to be that way around here. The 60s and the 70s were pretty crazy. There was all kinds of stuff going on. I was a little young in the 60s, and I'm dating myself, I know, but I do remember the 70s quite well. It was a wild, fun, crazy time. So, I have lots of ideas, trying to work on them. Hoping try doesn't die. I tried office jobs. I get fired from every single office job I've ever tried to be in. I've tried retail, I've tried everything. It just doesn't click. It's not what I'm supposed to be doing. This is it, and I hope that others feel inspired to do the same thing. I guess that's what I want. I want everyone to just do what they want to do. If they feel so creatively inspired to do it, there has got to be a way. Follow your dreams. You don't have to go to art school. You don't have to do a lot of things that you're told to do. If you can do that, great, but just do it. Find your path. Find your way. Make mistakes. Fall on your ass. Who cares? I've got lots of skinned knees. I've got lots of scars. Nobody knows what's going to happen tomorrow. kSea: I'm looking at you right now, and you have this huge smile on your face [KC laughs] and you're making me smile because you're doing what you love to do.

KC: You made me happy. You made me remember that that's what it's all about. I kept thinking I needed to tell you something profound [kSea laughs] but that's about as profound as you can get, I guess.

kSea: It's so incredibly simple, as well. You just need to remember your dreams…

KC: Maybe this isn't as a PC thing to say, but I think that the more creative you are, the closer you are to 'God,' whatever God is for you. I think that's what it's all about. It took a lot of practice. I tried to do the white picket fence thing – it wasn't a white picket fence, it was a nice little hedge, but... you know. [both laugh] It had all the things and it didn't make me happy. Sometimes I miss the security but this makes me happier, so I just want to be around people like that.

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